Two of them have already leaked before. Both of those are missiles being viewed with an infrared camera. One of them shows a missile passing through the field of view rapidly with a motion blur streak behind it. The other shows a missile performing maneuvers and a camera artifact showing a star-like diffraction+aperture artifact around the bright IR light source.
None of these pieces of imagery look like something doing something particularly interesting. What happens is a military personnel records a video. They don't know what it is in the moment. It gets labeled "unknown" and put on a DoD file server, and then either they or someone else who stumbles across it clips out part of it and starts to spread rumors about this amazing video of a UAP they saw. There are people who work for the DoD who appear to spend a great deal of their free time scrolling around internal DoD file servers looking for anything they can portray as proof of aliens, and sometimes they leak their stories and even clips to public UFO influencers like Jeremy Corbell.
What kind of birds are cold in black-hot imagery? What sort of missiles don't have an exhaust but a "ghost shell" trailing behind? What sort of balloons show up as contrast instead of neutral?
Your comment is all certainty, and the thread has rewarded that. People are seeking definite answers - seems proportional to the uncertainty they sense. Do you really feel qualified to provide that? Seems a big responsibility to take on, sort of like a public Explaining influencer lol.
Your idea that gossip enriches mundane with magic is unnecessary here, because the media themselves are 'unexplained' (if we remove your certainty).
It can be compelling and attractive to fill the silence or the unknown with an invention of certainty - sort of like a prophet or shepheard - but the edge of known demands more curiosity and wonder for an honest approach.
Birds tend to be well insulated so when they fly at altitude in cold weather they don’t lose all their body heat.
The color it appears on infrared footage depends on the other pixels in frame. It uses dynamic ranges to map infrared values to a visible light spectrum. If the rest of the frame was ice, or you were looking up into space, a bird would probably be rendered as very warm.
If the rest of the frame is a warm ocean surface and warm wind turbines, then a flying bird may be rendered as cold relative to those pixels.
Balloons can also show up as a different temperature than the background of the frame depending on what the balloon is made of, altitude differences (ambient temp at high altitude is colder than at the surface), etc.
Convenient and good infrared video for all these scenarios is hard to come by but would be useful. I think if the DoD was willing to put some money into the budget for practical recreations of UAP scenarios that they then make public, they could do a lot of good. But there'd probably be pushback about wasting money and also risks of leaking information about military sensor capabilities.
But here is a paper showing penguins photographed with a temperature-sensing IR camera, showing the majority of the surface of their body being around -21ºC thanks to the highly insulating plumage.
This is one of those things where an objective person shouldn't start out with a completely neutral attitude. Have you ever heard that phrase "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"?
For example, If I take a blurry photo of something I see outside on a full moon that's probably a raccoon and proclaim its a photo of the elder god Nug, spawn of Azathoth, the Lord of All Things, and someone points out that its probably a raccoon but the photo is so bad there's really no way to ever tell the right attitude isn't to say:
"It can be compelling and attractive to fill the silence or the unknown with an invention of certainty - sort of like a prophet or shepheard - but the edge of known demands more curiosity and wonder for an honest approach."
This is even more true when there are so many blurry photos. It's as if Nugs acolytes keep putting up photos and making claims but not a single photo clearly shows his three heads or single pogo stick leg. The more photos there are, the more likely it is that at least one of them should clearly display Nug.
Huh. You're right, I never thought about it that way. I had to look it up and apperently there are multiple theories that the reason ufo photos are always terrible quality is that there's some kind of terrible-photo-force-field around them. Great stuff!
The truth is that when we see photos of Nug the mind-bending eldrich horror of the sight disturbs the vision part of our brain. The photos are all perfectly clear, but simply too terrible for our tiny minds to ever percieve.
>> What kind of birds are cold in black-hot imagery? What sort of missiles don't have an exhaust but a "ghost shell" trailing behind?
IR imagery can be flipped between black=hot or white=hot. These systems are about creating contrast to aid visualization, not recording scientific data.
>> What sort of balloons show up as contrast instead of neutral?
A hot air balloon? Any balloon that has recently changed altitude? Any reflective balloon reflecting sunlight (Mylar is common). Or, in thin air, a non-reflective balloon absorbing sunlight and warming faster than it can dissipate that heat.
I feel it premature on the data to offer any at all. Also inappropriate for me to explain because I don't want the role, nor to bias any. I am content with the mystery and will see what shows up. Re this latest "drop" - I am in the absorb and observe phase, analysis is only passive background, if at all, I think.
I'm grateful for the entertainment and the sense of "gov't doing something people want/revealing something they lied about" tho. Restores confidence in the big system. I'm really curious to see what comes next :)
Agreed! And so am I, curious that is.
Also hope some update about the
deceased scientists are made available.
This president is doing a bit more to
disclose as compared to previous presidents.
Like him or not, this Prez's actively making the
effort to keep his campaign promises.
The only reasons I can think of why your comment would have gotten downvoted is for ideological reasons, e.g. people dislike the president so they downvoted you for saying something even slightly positive about him.
Since HN is not supposed to be used for ideological battle, that seems unfair. So have a counterbalancing upvote.
I'll add that I had the impression that the star-shaped one resembles a distant missile but could even be something even less interesting than a missile, given that at a few points later in the video, a parachute is visible and the heat source appears to be attached to it, suggesting that it could be a parachute flare.
The "star shaped" object moves relative to it akin to a reflection actually.
The interesting question here is, whether that is "white hot" or "black hot" imagery. The trail the object leaves is white. If it was a flare, that would mean white is hot. Then the object would be cold.
You cannot have a "camera artefact" from a cold spot in the sky.
I think it is very likely a parachute. It moves in a swinging relation to the heat source because the heat source is hanging from it. It doesn’t exhibit reflection across the center of frame like you’d expect from a lens flare, and you can see frames in the video when the partially IR-translucent parachute overlaps itself showing that it’s a physical material moving around and which IR light can partially pass through.
It is black hot. We know this for sure because someone in the DoD previously leaked a single screenshot of the video, which did not have the on-screen data elements redacted, and you can see the BLK indicator. That person believed the star shape was the physical shape of the object, not a lens artifact, and told this to the UFO influencer they leaked it to. That’s how this particular video eventually ended up included in this data dump.
The smoke trail must cool rapidly and be colder in temperature than the flare itself and the parachute above it. The ambient air temp and time of day may be relevant to this (direct sun could contribute to warming the parachute). Since it is infrared footage, the colors are all based on a dynamic range, so the smoke only needs to be slightly colder than the parachute in order to appear lighter in color.
Of course, everything is just something boring. The chances of us espying extraterrestrials in our atmosphere by chance are essentially nil. People looking for secret photos and buried evidence will absolutely positively never find it. People inside the DoD are just as crazy and irrational as the general public if not moreso. If a flying saucer lands in your front yard and little green men come out and say "take me to your leader" it's still infinitesimally likely that it's actually aliens. Meeting aliens will be nothing like any movie or book ever written (except maybe Contact).
I mean, there is still people who think that a UFO was sighted in Roswell at the radar testing site of Area 51.
Imagine that, 70ish years later there is people that cannot grasp how modern the A-12 prototype was. [1]
In my opinion the US has a real scientific education problem. So much so that people still think that alien life that built machines so advanced that they can bridge distances over lightyears travel time... just the belief that they will remotely resemble our appearance anyhow is statistically so close to 0 that I have no words to express how unlikely it is to happen. You have a greater chance getting hit every millisecond of your life by a lightning strike than this being the case.
If we are being visited we would never see them unless they decided to show themselves, and if they did it would be absolutely unambiguous.
Someone with the tech to travel the stars (or something weirder like between dimensions) could make probes the size of bugs, sand, or dust. They could also image us at incredible resolution from afar, receive all our signals, and so on. They might be able to do even weirder and crazier forms of surveillance we don’t even understand yet, like high resolution imaging with neutrinos or gravity waves.
They could study us all they wanted and we’d never know.
Look into how advanced some of our spy tech is, and we have barely left our planet.
Uh if the US military cannot identify birds, balloons, light, and more importantly missiles after thorough cross-agency review, I think you're not seeing the forest for the trees.
This is not about “the US military cannot identify”.
These case reports happen often because one person filmed something and perhaps that one person didn’t know what it was. The video then gets saved and catalogued as unidentified. The video is then so lacking in information and context that it is literally impossible for people to later figure out exactly what object it was. AARO (and before them the UAP Task Force) has been investigating a lot of these case reports and many of them get resolved as “balloon-like objects” or “objects consistent with a balloon”, because the video is consistent with it being a balloon but they want to avoid stating definitively that they know the object was a balloon. If I recall correctly something half of the imagery that gets reported as UAP in the US military ends up falling into the “likely/definitely birds and balloons” bucket.
It is foolish to dismiss this, it’s simply a fact that balloons and birds are a common underlying cause for sightings which are reported to AARO as UAP. There have also been other cases where videos recorded of airplanes have been reported to AARO and they were able to figure out that it was airplanes. It’s not that “the US military doesn’t know what airplanes look like”, it’s that one person operating an IR camera in the military recorded a video and didn’t know what it was, so they reported it as being an unidentified aerial sighting. And then it gets put in this bucket of reports called “UAP sightings”. And maybe never gets resolved because there’s not enough information there to do anything with it.
No, these releases are UFOs as of now, after extensive cross-agency review. Your premise of "one person didn’t know what it was" is demonstrably false. This is not a release of identified anomalous phenomena or IAP or IFOs.
You are vastly overestimating how much analytical work gets put into investigating the original context and flight modeling for videos like these before they are released.
The UAP Task Force did a presentation to Congress in which the head of the office showed a frame of the now-viral “green triangles” UFO video filmed with night vision camera on the deck of a US Navy vessel. The UAP Task Force was staffed with UFO believers and they believed the green triangles shown in the sky were pyramid shaped aircraft. They failed to realize the triangles were merely an artifact of the focus and the triangle shaped camera aperture and that in that frame of video, all of the triangles were known bright stars in that region of sky at that time of year. They could have figured all this out. People on the ship that day would of course know that those points of light in the sky were stars, and that the triangles in the video were just camera artifacts, not in the real world. But years later, the UAP Task Force looked at the video, and didn’t know that.
AARO has been doing a better analytical job than the UAP Task Force did. They fired everyone and hired people who weren’t predisposed to paranormal beliefs. (Jay Stratton staffed the UAP Task Force with people he knew would help bolster his preexisting paranormal beliefs). But this latest data dump was not done because AARO had finished evaluating these cases and done extensive work to narrow down possibilities. This data dump (and the ones coming next) was forced on an accelerated timeline by a handful of paranormal activists in Congress who just like the media attention and want to promote all kinds of fringe religious and paranormal ideas.
> The UAP Task Force was staffed with UFO believers
This here is the source of the problem. Also, the Congress critters that fund this are UFO believers too. That's the only reason this is still going on.
You are discussing IAP/IFOs. That's good they were able to identify light and released videos of it. And yeah I get why conspiracy theories of military parabnormal cabals is exciting, but also beside the point. This is about UFOs/UAP and not about whether AARO can identify light but whether the US combatant commands, the alphabet agencies, and the White House together can.
You are not getting the point here. Cases get talked about as UAP cases merely because they were initially catalogued as unidentified and have not yet had a conclusive resolution attached to them. It doesn't mean they are not resolvable. It just means it hasn't happened yet. It also doesn't mean that a ton of qualified people with access to all the appropriate information have put in deep investigative work into trying to figure out what it is. You are just assuming that anything released that is not resolved has to have gone through intense rigorous investigation, such that it means there is no known explanation for it, therefore it must be something truly anomalous. This is not how it works.
The UAP Task Force in the example I described above actually did so some analysis on the "green triangle" Navy UFO video but they still failed to identify the fact that their screengrab they presented to Congress was literally just stars with a bokeh artifact making them appear as triangles.
I believe your point is that, despite the resources thrown at the instant situation, you are admitting they are not resolved as of now, but the resolution will happen and be benign.
> assuming that anything released that is not resolved has to have gone through intense rigorous investigation, such that it means there is no known explanation for it
Yes.
> therefore it must be something truly anomalous
No, that is false. You are missing my point that, in the instant cases, presuming your point is true, is that this is a failure of the combined capacity of the US government. Nothing to do with cabals or aliens. Those are particular to your arguments.
Assuming your argument is true, my argument is strengthened. My argument is what your argument implies but does not make explicit because it wants the argument to be about cabals and aliens.
Unique observation conditions definitely can and do make those difficult to identify in some cases. Omniscience in all cases does not follow from success in routine cases.
The Pentagon, White House, &c are not unusual or unique observation conditions. These are not just UFOs at the time, they are UFOs now after going through extensive review regimes.
That's interesting but that's not what this video is. The star shape in the DoD video is a camera artifact. Just a really bright source of infrared light.
Lol "deep lore" - what are you really some sort of priest on this topic? Ok, priest, what is your read of the bigger picture - not the narrow DoW released videos, but the larger context.
Re the counterpost - i admit it's a good effort to match the graphics - but it still looks markedly different. Thermal overexposure seems less likely given paucity of other examples - what about active jamming? IR laser pointing? Hunch just now: sth about polarized light? Idk.
It was just a joke. You linked a thread about one particular camera artifact but missed the fact that there was another thread about this specific case. I've read all of those threads.
There's not really much ambiguity here regarding these factors now:
- it's a small bright infrared light source attached to a parachute
The full quote is "don't cite the deep lore to me, I was there when it was written". The intention is to imply that he was there when the thread was created.
At this point, I would dismiss every image of anything that shared symmetry with any part of the camera taking the photo.
In the 90s there was a wave of diamond-shaped craft in Europe. All were taken by cheap disposable cameras with four-bladed aperture. The current trend now is fuzzy moving images. They are fixed points like stars and the "motion" and color changes comes from the digital camera's algorithm trying to make sense of a one-pixel signal from the ccd. (See flat earth videos claiming that stars/planets are actually spotlights.)
For anyone else who has a UFO-crazy uncle, I've found Mick West's YouTube channel to be invaluable https://www.youtube.com/c/mickwest. Mick is a retired video game programmer (Spider Man, Guitar Hero, Tony Hawk), who does extremely well-researched videos analyzing UFO claims.
He's not flashy or trying to be entertaining, just thorough, evidence-based and scientifically rigorous. He'll even do controlled experiments, recreations and 3D models to validate what's going on. And he's unfailingly respectful no matter how unhinged the claim. His work explaining the "Gimbal Video" is a good example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7jcBGLIpus
I think it takes time. I can only imagine the hours required to research, develop and shoot such well-evidenced explanations, given that part of his audience is true believers searching for any gap through which they can sustain their beliefs. But look at his website: https://www.metabunk.org. A quick search there for "Transients" returned several pages of posts, some from Mick himself.
Frankly, I don't follow it these days as I have nowhere near Mick's saintly level of patience to so calmly endure a never-ending game of whac-a-mole. Rational, evidence-based skeptics like Mick are doomed to Sisyphean toil because even after they've resoundingly explained a hundred vague claims, UFO (and Chem-Trail, Flat Earth, etc) true believers will always find a new one to hitch their belief to. Because, apparently, a consistent trend of 100 consecutive falsifications implies nothing about the likelihood of #101. And at the end of the day, it's impossible to conclusively prove a negative.
>Rational, evidence-based skeptics like Mick are doomed to Sisyphean toil because even after they've resoundingly explained a hundred vague claims, UFO (and Chem-Trail, Flat Earth, etc) true believers will always find a new one to hitch their belief to.
Right. And I do think that meticulous effort is invaluable because it heightens the cost of cognitive dissonance which can be important to reaching people on the sidelines.
But it makes you wonder if the debunking community should be a bit more intentional about intercepting whatever these psychological processes are that make people immune to evidence-based correction, and target those mechanisms the same meticulousness in patients of a debunk.
Although obviously I think the trouble with that is such a task would amount to helping steer such people into a fabric of social and cultural connectedness that's more valuable to them than the conspiracies are. Which seems a tall order. But maybe engineering an alternative psychological virus that crowds out the conspiracies in favor of something else is a more efficient option.
> But it makes you wonder if the debunking community should be a bit more intentional about intercepting whatever these psychological processes are that make people immune to evidence-based correction, and target those mechanisms the same meticulousness in patients of a debunk.
You haven't spent much time arguing with people who refuse to listen to any evidence at all, have you? The "psychological processes" you describe are, in many cases, that people will simply stick their (metaphorical) fingers in their ears and say "La la la, I'm not listening!" In other words, a willful, determined refusal to listen.
It's not a matter of psychological processes, at least not for the people I've interacted with in the past. It's plain and simple refusal. They've decided that they're right, they know it, and nobody is going to tell them otherwise, darn it!
P.S. Edited to add this, because I meant to write it earlier and forgot: It's just stubbornness. You can't cure stubbornness with psychoanalysis. Some people just don't want to believe in what you're trying to tell them. As the even older quote goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." You can lead a stubborn person to all the evidence in the world, but you can't make him think.
> Because, apparently, a consistent trend of 100 consecutive falsifications implies nothing about the likelihood of #101. And at the end of the day, it's impossible to conclusively prove a negative.
That's right. Not sure why you sound a bit unhappy with this.
In particular, a source can become more untrustworthy over time if the source is repeatedly proven to lie or be reckless about the truth. I'm not sure you can apply the same logic to "categories of claims". What is the rationale behind your implied frustration that people are not "learning" that some "categories of claims" tend to be untrue? (not to mention the arbitrary grouping of totally disparate ones like Chem-Trails and Flat Earth)
If a “category of claims” has shared causal structure, then the category’s track record absolutely does tell you something about the next claim in it.
It’s not arbitrary. Alien UFOs, Chem-Trails, and Flat Earth are obviously all generated from the same distribution of bullshit: ambiguous or misunderstood phenomena explained by positing a vast hidden conspiracy.
Every person on Earth could agree that Earth is flat and it wouldn't affect the reality of whether or not extraterrestrials visit earth even a little bit.
The shared causal structure is the absence of facts and denial of science. Nearly every religion on earth also suffers from that in their gospel, where many fictitious and supernatural phenomena are bundled together and sold for truth.
I'd prefer to speak about "evidence in support of/against" rather than "facts", which often conceals a presuming-the-consequent kind of fallacy.
> denial of science
Whether "science" is believed or denied by any particular person has no effect on whether or not extraterrestrial intelligence has or is visiting earth.
Demanding that "science" be believed is un-scientific. I am not drawing an equivalence between science and religion here, but pointing out that your argument is a super hand-wavey appeal to an inviolable "gospel". I'm old enough to remember when a theory like intra-galactic panspermia was regarded like canals-on-Mars.
In my view, ETI theories are lacking any credible evidence and this makes me sad.
There is nothing anti-science about the idea of extraterrestrial intelligence. In fact its apparent absence is has a name -- it's called the Fermi Paradox.
And the facts are just ... released. It's the interpretation of the observations that are disputed. And unless you think they are all fake, the explanations that do not involve alien tech are non-trivial to say the least.
I'm not sure why you'd think there is any shared causal structure with flat earthers at all.
That's an example of ambiguous or misunderstood phenomena explained by a professor who decided that there's more money in UFO BS than in his previous career (or sincerely lost his grip on reality, who knows).
Sounds like you've already decided and are trying to work backwards - as in the supposition "UFO-crazy" seems more like you're trying to wrangle some analysis to prove your inter-family ad-hominem than following the evidence to illuminate a mystery, and Mr West's work is abused for that lol
As used here "UFO-crazy" wasn't a supposition, it was a constraint.
"UFO-crazy uncles" are known to exist. This is not an extraordinary claim. The existence of such uncles provides no evidence for or against extraterrestrial visitors or other aerial phenomena.
In context seemed more like a smear for any who don't dismiss as unremarkable. But I'm glad you took it as the narrow case, tho - do they really "exist", or might they have just been right all along? Lol
People who believe in "chemtrails" are (in my un-scientific survey) pretty likely to be conspiracy enthusiasts ("cranks", "crazy", etc.).
But they're not wrong that the stuff coming out of the back of jet aircraft is changing the climate.
Small, localized weather engineering programs have long been real (cloud seeding), and planetary-scale climate engineering projects are now openly discussed by governments. E.g. https://www.epa.gov/geoengineering/about-geoengineering "Types of solar geoengineering techniques include: Stratospheric Aerosol Injection (SAI) – adding small reflective particles to the upper atmosphere (stratosphere) to reflect incoming sunlight. Sulfur dioxide (SO2), one of the types of chemicals considered for SAI, can chemically react in the stratosphere to form reflective sulfate aerosols."
Except "stuff" isn't coming out of the back of aircraft: they're talking about aircraft contrails which is just condensed water vapor from wingtip turbulence.
The people who claim they're monitoring chemtrails aren't even watching aircraft which are deliberately dispensing payloads, because it just isn't that common in the first place (unless you go out and watch crop dusting, but then you can also just see the guy land, get out, and talk about it).
And then a counter example of something broadly accepted but untrue. The humoral theory and blood letting, practiced for thousands of years. This is what killed George Washington.
Yep. The planets do not, in fact, revolve around the Sun. They revolve around the solar system center of mass (barycenter). This is an error of about 0.25 degree viewed from Earth which was significant at the time.
> Hand washing prevents illness
Did the person who we credit for hand washing advocate for it because he was "crazy", or because he had a well-founded theory?
> COVID came from a lab, not a wet market
The lab-leak theory has not held up to scrutiny. It is considered refuted. Though IMO the initial backlash was excessive.
> Hunter Biden laptop was real
No one outside of politics said the laptop "wasn't real", many emails were cryptographically authenticated very early on. There was a great deal of concern by experts that a coordinated disinfo op was being played into the election. It was, though probably not with the involvement of foreign actors this time. Nothing about that laptop ended up being relevant to the Presidential candidate actually running for election.
> And then a counter example of something broadly accepted but untrue. The humoral theory and blood letting, practiced for thousands of years. This is what killed George Washington.
We're talking about examples of things a "crazy uncle" might believe that turned out to be true. These are just abandoned pre-scientific medical theories and treatments.
So with The War having ground to an unsatisfactory halt, they're now releasing distraction #2. I wonder how many will be needed between now and November?
This is what they do Everytime things are going really bad. "Oh btw aliens!?". It's a psyop so people appeal to higher powers and feel that the government is keeping them safe. Truth is if aliens ever made contact with the us, the representatives would be trying to sell us for alien weapons they could use to go kill whatever remains that they don't like at any given moment.
You've mistaken indifference with inability. The government can absolutely get something done very quickly if certain people wish. There are numerous examples.
They will never release them. The distraction will morph into all the electoral subterfuge they will attempt as they increasingly fear losing power at the polls. They know what's in those files and what will happen to them if they lose in 2028. Thus they will be even more incentivized to behave badly.
If gas prices double from here it will be less stupid distraction and more overt authoritarianism... the ICE question has not been settled. ICE is still violating your neighbors and making a mockery of what is supposed to be a society of free people. They merely thought the overt city takeovers and shooting Americans in the head had become a bad look that wasn't worth it politically. The persistence of this calculus is not inevitable.
More than anything, that's the one thing that they want to avoid. That's something that's radicalized at least one person into doing something rash and could radicalize more.
The distraction is not releasing them. If there was enough shit in the files for a conviction, the previous administration would have prosecuted. They were sealed from the public not from the DOJ.
The reality is that there's no shortage of dirt in them (that likely doesn't pile up to guilt beyond a reasonable doubt), but his base doesn't care, and will never care.
It's possible releasing the files would have negative consequences on both the current and previous administration, which is why neither of them did it.
secret third option: the dirt is still effective as blackmail and thats more valuable to powers that be than prosecution. the fbi acquired all the videos on disc from a safe in wexlers 5th ave mansion, yet no one was arrested for sex crimes, weird!
Co-conspirators are prosecuted in parallel or semi-parallel all the time, without waiting for the core prosecution to conclude.
There was no reason for why the administration had to wait for the files to be unsealed to go after anyone it wanted to. Unsealing them only makes the records available to the public at large, not the rest of the DOJ.
You sound invincibly unconvinceable - but the way I see that argument is the media power of the narratives against the admin are all currently weak, there's no tidal wave of pressure from which to distract - and even if there were, it's not like Trump has ever needed that, he's always been able to dispatch wave after wave of narratives, undefeated.
Would you like to know more? The timing is viewed more naturally I think in a trajectory from the 2017 NYT article, through the series of congressional hearings, whistleblowers and attempted UAPDA legislation, to recent statements by Obama and Trump re "classified info", that seemed to lead directly to here. Through all this, the chorus of increasing public interest and demands.
More starkly - it's odd to see this issue in anyway partisanly or linked to a particular administration, or even news cycle. It's a persistent topic of human interest, across cultures and decades. The Trump intersection I think can be explained because he's the most "renegade" (yes, a pun), least controlled and most effective. These latter claims themselves are deeply controversial for some, and may contribute to making it hard for such folks to see any such prosaic explanations of the timing and reach for something a little more out there.
Conspicuously missing in your argument is a link to a credible source with any evidence (or even 1st person testimony). It should be easy.
Instead, I just see elaborate narratives about political motivations and garbage evidence like that laughably low-effort fake video presented in Congress by Representatives.
Lol, what? Reads as zany non-sequitur in context - did you reply right? Your frame that any timing of this drop is disputed and requires evidence, I reject. If you say precisely which phrases you felt that about, your comment might be better.
This is the correct understanding. Thank you for voicing it.
It is unfortunate how many have succumbed to Trump derangement syndrome and are rendered unable to discuss this topic critically, moving to complete dismissal because of the controversy surrounding the messenger.
The UAP disclosure movement has been decades in the making. Trump was simply the one willing to push it, exactly because of his counterculture, renegade nature as you put it.
Are we alone? Is there other intelligent life in the universe? What's the meaning of life? They've robbed themselves of the ability to engage with these questions, and it's a shame.
According to the resolution criteria, I would say that that market should trade much much higher than OP's hypothetical market. Any governmental agency stating that "Extraterrestrial life exists" would count. NASA/Seti finding evidence of algae on an exo planet or Io or something counts.
"NASA, ESA, and Roscosmos all confirm definitive concrete proof, and publish this proof, for the presence of organisms, or technology created by organisms, which originated from outside Earth's atmosphere, and was present within Earth's hill sphere at some point since 1900."
This real announcement (with some edited visuals to make it look like he was delivering it inside the White House press room) was used in the movie Contact to seem related to the more extraordinary discovery of alien intelligence that was portrayed in that movie.
They may read like so many others, but what I don't understand is why special agents in the FBI would take it upon themselves to report strange phenomena.
This seems like it would be a CLM, as the authority of their testimony is central to their function as federal LE.
> The object was described as being "similar to the Eye or [sic] Sauron from Lord of the Rings, except without the pupil, or maybe an orange Storm Electrify bowling ball."
It would have been some fantastic spy tech, alright.
The US Department of Defense has published a CSV dataset containing UAP (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena) observation records. It appears to include structured entries that can be used for independent analysis and research.
Thank you for the links. I was able to find the CSV too by taking a look at the network sources from the webpage. I find that the dataset is messy, with missing data. For example, 65_HS1-834228961_62-HQ-83894_Serial_153 has a link that doesn't work either in the CSV nor the webpage.
On the other hand, there is no link in the CSV for NASA-UAP-D3A, Gemini 7 Audio Excerpt, 1965 but the link in the webpage does work. It utilizes https://api.dvidshub.net/ to request the content.
Another example are incident dates like with DOW-UAP-PR36, Unresolved UAP Report, Middle East, May 2020 that are N/A in the CSV but have an incorrect one inside the snippet (5/1/20 as opposed to 5/14/20). It also seems like there are duplicate incidents just with different media. By the way, the video in this incident is compelling.
I look forward to dissecting the dataset but it's far from perfect. There is definitely a massive amount of potential here.
I'm not unconvinced Hegseth bought wholesale into the book version of Starship Troopers, since Heinlein complaining about calling it the Department of Defense is one of his stand-in character rants. But that is my personal bias since I forced myself to suffer through it recently.
Yeah, the idea is that we wanted to move focus from might make right to deterrance and international law. It's why the UN charter prohibits agressive war but allow self defense, and why the US renamed its departement of war to department of defense in 1947.
So yeah, sure, in the current attitude and action that are very much "hey let's go back to that great time where we openly agreed war of conquest are a good thing" they have it makes sense.
Polling I saw says only about 18% of Americans are calling it that, with 72% sticking with the actual legal name (Department of Defense). Even a majority of Republicans are still calling it the Department of Defense.
The other name changes by the Trump administration are also not catching on.
70+% also continue to call the Gulf of Mexico "Gulf of Mexico".
A large majority also continue to call Mount Denali "Mount Denali".
A significant majority is still calling the Kennedy Center that instead of "The Donald J. Trump and the John F. Kennedy Memorial Center for the Performing Arts".
North Korea calls itself the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, but nobody else calls it that. It also claims to control the entire Korean peninsula.
Umm...when we lived in Colombia, my son decided to re-name himself Martillo Veneno. For those who don't know Spanish, that's Hammer Poison. You have something against that?
It used to be named the Department of War and Palmer Luckey suggested naming it back. People agreed, so they did. It's just another part of changing the posture to match the philosophy that the best defensive is a good offense. It seems to be working pretty well, if you know what we're defending against.
For a few years before it was the Department of Defense it was the National Military Establishment (with an initialism with a very unfortunate pronunciation given its function) and before that it didn't exist at all.
Now, before the National Military Establishment was formed to unify the nations military bureaucracy, there were two separate cabinet level departments, the Department of War (which oversaw the Army) and the Department of the Navy (which oversaw the Navy, including the Marine Corps.) When the NME was created, the Army was split into the Army and the Air Force, and the Department of War was likewise split into the Department of the Army and the Department of the Air Force. Both of these new Departments and the Department of the Navy remained (briefly) cabinet-level departments with their own Secretaries, while the NME was headed by the new Secretary of Defense.
Very quickly, though, further reforms were adopted in law and the NME became the Department of Defense and the service secretaries were formally subordinated to the Secretary of Defense and were now subcabinet positions (which is how the DoD got its unique, within the US executive branch, Department with its own cabinet level Secretary with subordinate Departments headed by a subcabinet level Secretaries organization.)
TLDR: The Department of War was not an earlier name for the Department of Defense, it was the name for the Department of the Army before the Air Force was split out from it.
> Palmer Luckey suggested naming it back. People agreed, so they did.
Well, again, it couldn’t be named back to “Department of War”, because its only previous name was “National Military Establishment.” And while some people obviously agreed that it should be called “Department of War”, they didn’t actually rename it. The name in law of the organization named “The Department of Defense” in 1949 by amendments to the National Security Act of 1947 remains “The Department of Defense”. It hasn’t been renamed. The present executive branch leadership has adopted nicknames for the department and the titles of its officials ("secondary titles” in the language of EO 14347 which formalized the system of nicknames [and also recounts as if true the false history that “Department of War” was previously the name of the Department of Defense].)
This is so cool. For instance the asset FBI SEPTEMBER 2023 SIGHTING - COMPOSITE SKETCH indicated that “Actual site photo with FBI Lab rendered graphic overlay depicting corroborating eyewitness reports from September 2023 of an apparent ellipsoid bronze metallic object materializing out of a bright light in the sky, 130-195 feet in length, and disappearing instantaneously.”
I wonder if there’s satellite imagery of this event, or maybe if in the near future we’ll have greater satellite coverage so we can corroborate these claims with imagery.
>I wonder if there’s satellite imagery of this event, or maybe if in the near future we’ll have greater satellite coverage so we can corroborate these claims with imagery.
The more cameras we have (in everyone's pocket, in the streets, in the sky), the less "sightings" we have (of UFO and cryptids).
I remember being amazed when I saw this as a kid and told everyone I had seen a "rainbow around the sun". I've never seen it again in person. Maybe I've learned not to stare in the direction of the sun. But thank you for teaching me it's called a sundog!
I think I'm missing the excitement. This is an artist's rendering of a supposed massive orb in the sky? I am more impressed by the actual UAV footage that has been released previously.
The entire site is meant to distract you from asking where are the other files they’ve been required by law to disclose but have refused to. Mixing artist renderings with photography is just par for course MAGA conspiracy stuff.
This is pure propaganda. It's been astroturfed on 4chan and mainstream social media for weeks, though to great skepticism on the former. The UFO nut community (people who make their interest/belief in UFOs into their entire personality, to the neglect of all other considerations) is being weaponized for political leverage, just like the anti-vax and chemtrail communities were.
Kimmel does the Trump-Epstein Files (TM), but as we've been repeatedly told, he's not funny and has abysmal ratings and should be fired. He's so bad, he's put his entire parent company's broadcast license up for review. You realize how bad you must be for that to happen?
I'd agree with your ranking while putting Fallon below Kimmel. It is funny to watch each of their stand up routines on YT the next day to compare how often they all have very similar jokes. They, along with John Oliver, like to do supercuts of things where everyone is reading the same script, yet I've never seen them do the same thing to themselves. The only thing different is they are not reading the same script. Sometimes, the jokes literally write themselves and not a coordinated effort.
As wild as this is, its very true… idk about till November as I think their playbook repeats too often.
Regardless, I have friends that run mobile studio vans for on-air guests whose major client is fox news… they get schedules two weeks in advance of guests. Locations… scheduling, production, logistics all takes time and planning obviously… the studios and powers at be absolutely have already thought in advance what stories they’ll be pushing!
Not to say random last minute events don’t happen constantly throwing a wrench in things… but regardless the over arching narratives and news cycle are already mostly planned out.
Ah, a commenter claiming something is propaganda .. let's go look through their submissions to HN and see their posting pattern .. Let's see ..
- Trump-related political posts
- China-related political posts
- Iran-related political posts
- DOGE-related political posts
- RFK-Jr-related political posts
- Covid-19 related posts
- Economy-related political posts
- Election-related political posts
- Anti-Russia/anti-"nazi" political posts
My oh my, with that post history, I surely trust you to decide for us what's "propaganda' and what's not. Surely you yourself aren't a huge propaganda account.
I still can't wrap my head around the fact that the guy who made his campaing on ending wars the first thing he does after being elected changes the name from DoD to DoW and starts new wars.
But he didn't. That requires congressional action. The DoW is just a "secondary" name attached via executive order. Contracts still say DOD. The only reason people are saying "DoW" it is to appease certain forceful personalities.
Yes, surprising in a "I can't believe this is happening" way, not in a "this was unexpected" way. He made his campaign on ending everything. Diving headfirst into the first conflict he could with 0 understanding is the most expected thing that could've happened.
Americans consistently vote for less war and they consistently get more war. If they voted for more war I’m pretty sure they would still get more war. I think blaming the American public for these wars is a deflection from the actual mechanisms that instigate them. We are more governed by blackmail than we are by voters.
I do wish there was even more resistance though, war has been effectively pitched as costless or even as a boon. Perhaps if this war bites there will be more resistance to future wars. At the very least the Iran war being such a disaster may have saved us from a more costly war with China - which the US was and in some ways still is gearing up for.
> I think blaming the American public for these wars is a deflection
Where did I do that? There's no one to vote for that doesn't wage war.
But to say voting for Trump was voting for less war is plain ridiculous. You'd have to ignore his entire career. He is famously fickle, is not shy about lying, and abandons friends at the soonest opportunity. A rational person hearing him say "I will end the Ukraine war on day 1" would understand he's saying whatever he thinks sounds good.
I still can't wrap my head around the fact that the guy was well known for being a liar and a charlatan and yet he was apparently the only politician Americans took implicitly at their word.
Like you'd think Americans would have learned after "read my lips, no new taxes" even if they somehow memory-holed Trump's entire first administration. But I guess not.
It is ridiculously hard to understand. I don't get it either. There's something about not just knowing they're a liar but constantly being told that? Trump benefits a great deal from friendly mass media.
Yes, i don't know why, but i can literally smell that its generated, but it doesn't matter.
Is there actually a term for every discussion about something code related turning into a debate about LLMs, just increasing the signal to noise ratio on the topic at hand?
In the same vein - the Roswell Museum and Research Center - the library portion is underrepresented in its ads. It is a library about the size of an elementary / middle school library filled with supposed accounts and testimony, academic-style papers and reports. One could spend days admiring this collection. (I’m not shilling for it, just pointing out the best part is not the latex cadavers in the other room.).
They have. Even during the congressional hearings on the subject they were talking about and referencing many already fully debunked UAP sighting footage
Except some of those would be necessarily suppressed because "it's the X-57" might be the sort of thing you don't want to release a picture of (nor say, F-22 doing some manoeuver we don't acknowledge it's capable of - in NATO exercises F-22 pilots are instructed to limit their flying to keep some of the plane's capabilities secret).
Um, no. The hellfire fired at a “UAP”. A psyop to cajole the senate and public.
As for US firing missiles at children, that Tomahawk hitting the all girls school had a strike package on record which would detail its intended target.
Hmm. I just read the page. It's about a famous concept that came from a book written by a Jewish Marxist who fled Nazi Germany. he wrote it in Paris in 1935 as the Nuremberg Laws were passed. Killed himself in 1940 trying to escape the Gestapo.
He's not hiding any of it. Masquerade is a bit rich.
An article about a topic doesn’t mean it’s endorsed - are you seriously suggesting that Wikipedia shouldn’t host an article that describes a theory if you don’t like the theory?
I think it's proper. When you release something like this, a raw data dump is the only way to cut out a BUNCH of the "this is modified and falsified" noise.
Much better to release the raw stuff; those and derived resources will likely be available in a much more accessible way on public mirrors within a few days.
or distact from the Iran war, or distract from Israel, or distract from corruption... distraction from distractions. We keep buying what they're selling, and then complain the milk is still sour.
Easy with the use of "we" there buddy. Just look at the polling. There are way more people not buying the bullshit, and the numbers keep getting worse as even the faithful are tiring of it as well. So just tossing "we" around becomes offensive as you've now included me into something I will not be a part of.
The numbers have sort of plateaued. There's a ~30% of the population that is all-in on Trump for emotional/psychological reasons, who have very different values from the rest of the population. Where others see malicious incompetence, they see him sticking it to their opponents and are even willing to suffer as long as they perceive their opponents to be suffering more. So although they don't like paying a lot of extra money for gas, they will put up with it for a long time because the payoff is seeing others suffer more. IT's not that Trump created this mindset, although he was able to capitalize on it due to being celebrity; about 1/3 of people are assholes and they're able to use the internet to network and coordinate like any other group. Unfortuantely, they are one of the largest social groups, while opponents have to deal with the friction of coalition politics.
That's fine, but at 30% "we" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. If it was 80% in favor, then maybe "we" could be accepted. Even at the less than a majority winning the election makes "we" difficult to accept.
A lot of people still look to the MSM to define reality for them.
But there's a huge and myserious disconnect between the MSM's reporting of Trump as a Serious Person, and the reality that he's a compulsive liar and fantasist and is seriously ill with advancing dementia.
Without honest reporting, "we" don't have a public voice.
And if they did put a lot of effort into it your comment would say "look at all the money that went into compute for setting this up". Can't let them win, right?
I'm only aware of Avi Loeb, who AFAIK is generally considered a crackpot and a grifter within academia, and his claims about Oumuamua and aliens aren't taken seriously by the mainstream.
I'm not the poster you replied to but it's worth mentioning that there are, unfortunately, examples of more than a few highly-credentialed academics and scientists believing some pretty out there things. Due to such a large sample size, humans being human and tenure being for life, sometimes you're going to get outliers. Plus expertise in one discipline doesn't necessarily generalize to appropriate scientific rigor and skepticism in other domains.
While I don't understand it myself, I've seen a study showing how some scientists can compartmentalize and apply different standards of evidence between their professional life and personal beliefs. In other cases, scientists conducting rigorous lab controlled studies have been deceived by fake psychics doing simple magic tricks (and not nearly as well as a competent magician). For example, Harold Puthoff and Russell Targ at Stanford Research Institute being fooled by Uri Geller. While Puthoff and Targ were trained experimentalists having worked in laser physics, their parapsychology study designs had poor controls and lacked statistical rigor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parapsychology_research_at_SRI
As a long-time skeptic, I've learned to avoid broad appeals to authority because relying on "a scientist said..." is ineffective when a true believer can cite a credentialed scientist spouting nutty stuff. In recent years the situation around military assessments of UFO sightings has also changed dramatically. In the mid-2010s, some UFO enthusiasts already in the military managed to work their way into positions as UAP investigators, largely because "UFO Investigator" was a role no serious military careerist wanted on their record. Suddenly, what were once hundred page dry, technical assessments boiling down to "inconclusive" (which no one cared about) became artfully crafted, overly-credulous reports highlighting sensational (but poorly supported) "possibilities." This coincided with a political recalculation from some members of both parties in congress and the White House during the past two administrations to stop fighting the tiny but highly vocal UFO community as it was a no-win battle and instead basically leverage UAPs as a sideshow either for attention or distraction. And it's working.
oh come on! where's that hacker spirit? you can download these and create a site that has them indexed as you'd like using the latest in LLM tech to parse the files and build the site for you. you can then turn around and give us a Show HN
It’s regex based. They’re looking for 8647, or the sum, 25. 25 cents is a quarter, so anything with George Washington’s profile is suspect. And 25 cents in old time slang is two bits (a Spanish dollar was 8 bits, or a piece of 8). Some younger people abbreviated two bits into 2b, so we now have some divisive terminology, “2b or not 2b”. Short list of regexes.
This is a great resource for people making video games a la Papers Please. I love these old letters and envelopes with their stamps, biro and stickers.
What fraction of the population of your average country has done some serious thinking about UFOs? What fraction of those thinks at least one of those unexplained events involved aliens?
No, I was only wondering how many people believe that we were visited by aliens for somewhat reasonable reasons. I would guess quite a few people would say that they believe that at least one of the UFO sightings was an actual UFO but I would also guess that most people are only informed by headlines or History Channel documentaries and only relatively few people have dedicated some non-trivial amount of time to look into the topic like you would for other topics that interest you.
I was just randomly going through redacted documents looking for more of those silly redaction mistakes. I didnt find any, but I did find some improperly de-classified documents.
They left the classification labels untouched (SECRET//REL TO USA, FVEY). They really are supposed to remove those or at least cross them out. To see a document on the public internet with those labels still attached is very odd behavior.
Friday 1pm ET markets close, so news doesn't affect stock prices until the following Monday, giving emotions time to settle and everyone an approximately equal opportunity to react.
This doesn't seem like market-moving material, but maybe it's just status quo.
These are the sort of people who aren't good with ambiguity, lack curiosity, and cannot tolerate holding conflicting views.
This reframe is a meme, but truly, if they were to dig into this topic they'd find there's more to uaps than meets the eye. There is something here that we don't understand.
Everything is a distraction from the fact that our politicians are all corrupt millionaires and we're effectively a country run by an oligarchy. Literally everything else is a distraction from this, to keep the machine going as long as possible, before a revolution takes place (which might happen without our lifetime, if we look at recent events).
:yawn: When in your lifetime were politicians not "run by an oligarchy"? It's so boring when people just hang onto the latest buzzwords and say nothing of substance. You think they need aliens to distract us from this?
If the full extent of the distraction is a 3 minute segment on cable news (and this HN submission), this is a complete failure of a distraction attempt.
I can't tell if comments like this are serious or rage bait.
Something can be a bad distraction. The fact that they’re planning on releasing these at a drip over the coming weeks/months certainly builds a case that this is meant to be yet another distraction. And you can bet this administration is desperate for anything that turns people’s attention away from Iran.
Trump is trying to fool, he releases data without metadata and doesn't release info about government SAPs on UAPs. Like reverse engineering or biologics. Boring.
It's still funny that it took the President to release these pics and you all are like "its a bird".
I want to believe this is legitimate but since when has the government treated it's citizens as informed adults? This is coming from someone who has seen multiple unidentified orange orbs in his life. Interesting I guess.
What do you mean by "encounter lasted maybe 5 minutes"? Where did the lights go after the 5 minutes? From your description these could potentially be military grade illumination flares, which fall very slowly and can burn for several minutes.
From the photos alone it's also hard to rule out distant airplanes with their bright forward landing lights on. When planes are flying towards you they appear to move very slowly and at a distance they appear as single bright orange/yellow glowing spots. Take this example showing 3 airplanes a few miles away:
They just fell out of my sightline. Whether trees or something else. It's fairly urban where I am, always stuff blocking the view. Not like the great plains, desert etc.
If you have good zoom binoculars or a zoom monocular, and a bit of practice, you can zoom in if you can hold it very steady, such at a window sill or against the window itself.
We're seeing two sets of UAPs -- blue on the left and yellow on the right. Were there really two sets when you were looking? Or is one of them a photographic artifact?
"""
We can be sure as the war ends, there will be another distraction by the US using "Aliens, UFOs, and UAPs".
If Iran war was a distraction from Epstein files, this will be a distraction from war crimes. We can be sure of some Aliens dot gov site launching distracting the world
"""
There may actually have been a legitimate reason for that. First, not all these "things" are said to be flying, some are supposed to have gone underwater (although "Aerial" sort of wrecks that idea). Second (and IMO more important), "Object" (in UFO) begs the question of whether these are objects. Many of them are not--they're artifacts in imaging or radar systems, or optical illusions--perhaps intentional illusions. ("Things" that appear to be moving really fast, then take a sudden turn, are easily imitated by lines of drones carrying radar and/or visual transponders.)
Am I supposed to take The Department of Defense seriously when the presentation of these alleged real findings looks like a website best described as marketing for the Call of Duty crowd?
Ah, another great Distraction from the Epstein Files and rampageous inflation due to an utterly unnecessary war the No-War FIFA peace-prize Orange-Man led the world into. Some say the Orange Man is the real proof Aliens exists - at least alien to what is considered human intelligence.
> STATEMENT: "The Department of War is in lockstep with President Trump to bring unprecedented transparency regarding our government’s understanding of Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena. These files, hidden behind classifications, have long fueled justified speculation — and it’s time the American people see it for themselves. This release of declassified documents demonstrates the Trump Administration’s earnest commitment to unprecedented transparency." -United States Secretary of War Pete Hegseth
If they truly want to 'serve the people' it would be time to release the full Epstein files - or at least stop starting wars and/or supporting warmongers while profiting of the resulting world-wide miseries with their insider trading.
I agree with you. I think the whole "war department" thing is pretty stupid and kind of archaic terminology at this point. I get sort of the intention. Under Biden's we had recruiting campaign's like "Emma's Two Mom's," which was just insanity but this rebranding dumb.
Sorry, did you forget the comment chain you were commenting on? This wasn't about files that were currently unreleased, it was discussing why Biden didn't release them during his presidency.
As far as Trump goes, yes, he's implicated all over the files. A simple search on any search engine will find plenty of examples for you.
Personally I think anyone who believes there’s a stack of “files” sitting somewhere which culminate in a spreadsheet of “Famous politician / # of underage girls we can prove he assaulted” is fantasizing and thinking the world is just like an exciting John Grisham novel.
Anyone who’s guilty of that either has sufficient corrupt clout to have eliminated the evidence of their crimes (thus no “files” threaten them), or, are already known about.
And come on, with the guy at the top of the government being very likely one of them and very openly and obviously corrupt, it is more of a stretch for me to believe that “Epstein permanent deletion service” isn’t an item on his main bribe menu.
Once you understand that legitimacy of rule by the wealthy is the primary corner stone of the United States, you'll understand that even the wealthy who didn't participate in the Epstein coalition don't want to open that can of worms.
It's why the Democrats keep only pushing social issues, they are captured and cannot make any radical change without losing the support of their wealthy donors.
Another way to look at it, consider that every coup that occurred in South America was done extra-legally to protect American corporate/monetary interests.
It’s a wild web of alliances if Biden and the DNC had evidence of Trump impropriety with Epstein which would be the absolute defined end of Trump, and refused to play even that small bit in the event that it implicated a Sponsor too.
“Operation Infektion” attempted to blame the emergence of HIV/AIDS in the 80s to biological weapon attacks by the US. There has been some coverage of the explosion in occult and ufo stories from TASS etc, such as “The New Age of Russia” compiled by Otto Sagner, but that work is more focused on historically documenting the phenomenon, rather than analyzing its causes.
Why do so many of you think this is some big distraction campaign? They have talked about this kind of thing before and people then made distraction allegations. Is there really any "distracting" going on? I still liberals going on and on about the Epstein files that they didn't care about under Biden. I think they know Democrats are still going to be talking about that, and "de-colonizing," talking about kings and fascism and all that. I think the whole UFO business is silly but I struggle to see it as some big conspiracy to distract it's not like it ever makes much of a difference one way or the other.
I would agree that it’s silly. So did former President Obama when he mocked the notion recently.
While motivating intent is always opaque to some extent, this would appear to be another form of a “flood the zone” approach, in my estimation.
Many officials who certainly know better are involved - let me put the question back to you: why do you think they’re using taxpayer dollars to fuel lies?
As someone who had a tattered copy of Von Daniken's Chariots of the Gods? back when, this would be a lot of fun to read through.
Hate the political implication of my comment all you want but one does at some point seriously have to question the motivations behind any action that's in the realm of, "Wow I'm surprised they did this".
From what we can see so far, the following are true:
- there exist technologies on our planet that human engineers and physicists do not know the underlying principles of their operation
- there exist unknown physical principles and forces that a party other than the USG has harnessed and implemented for advanced flight capability
- information about the phenomena has in fact been officially secret for several decades
- this concern is both real and existentially meaningful where, to sustain its own democratic legitimacy in its role as a servant to its people, the executive branch of the USG determined it is obligated to inform the public of its knowledge of these phenomena
The second part is the economic forecast of this. People absolutely knew, so we have to ask the question, why bother with SpaceX or even oil drilling if there was going to be an imminent overturning of flight physics? Arguably, just because some people have Bugatti's doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't still need rickshaws. I think commercial space exploration with chemical rockets will be economical presently and foreseeably. Turns out we're the rickshaw people now.
> - there exist technologies on our planet that human engineers and physicists do not know the underlying principles of their operation
> - there exist unknown physical principles and forces that a party other than the USG has harnessed and implemented for advanced flight capability
These certainly have not been shown to be true. People have told stories alleging these are true, but they have for decades failed to substantiate them with evidence. All they've been able to do is tell wild fantasy stories and occasionally get a video or photo released that is laughably bad and does not support the story at all.
Which keeps happening, but the people who believe in alien visitation to Earth never seem to care that the alleged "evidence" keeps falling apart when it's actually released and scrutinized. They just move on to hyping up the next alleged evidence. It's honestly a cult dynamic at play here. Always reference to secret evidence and no epistemic adjustment after repeated cases of what they believed was evidence for their belief turning out to not be evidence for their belief. They never learn from all the past times they got scammed.
I have dispassionately followed this topic for years and I am thoroughly familiar with all sides of the debate.
Nothing can be known for sure, but I'd say directionally we are moving closer to these conclusions over time, especially as more evidence is released.
It is understandable for most people to still be skeptical because this topic is probably one of the most well kept secrets (thanks to psyops, stigma, proximity to other high strangeness phenomenon) in human history.
Points 2-4 are entirely conjecture, though. If point 1 is even remotely true, then we lack the authority to decisively state that this phenomenon necessitates the existence of new control laws, flight dynamics or physics. We have no captured technology to speak of, you're making assumptions to explain the unknown.
> so we have to ask the question, why bother with SpaceX or even oil drilling
Because everyone with advanced access to this program knows, without a shadow of a doubt, that these UFO videos are a nothingburger and distraction from the DOJ's unreleased Epstein files.
I'll repost what I said in the other thread since this has more legs as a discussion:
Honestly, what difference does it make?
Unless Lrrr, Ruler of Omicron Perseii 8, lands a saucer on the White House lawn tomorrow and announces he's the new ruler of Earth, all of this means nothing.
I still have to go to work, I still can't buy a house without going into unreasonable financial risk, gas will still be creeping up to $5/gal in Kansas City, and I'll still be wondering if I'll be replaced by AI before I finish up saving for retirement.
To play Devil's advocate here, since I don't believe for a second that any of this is actually aliens - even knowing that alien life exists, much less intelligent life that's aware of us, fundamentally transforms the way we contextualize ourselves and the universe. And knowing that certain physics-defying technologies like faster than light travel, anti-gravity, etc. apparently exist would completely turn our existing scientific models on their heads.
You're right though, most people still have to go to work, and have other more pressing issues to deal with. I'm reminded that many Americans are convinced that we've already been through two alien invasions (the "New Jersey drone" sightings last year and the "Chinese spy balloon" incident in 2023, both of which were strongly wrapped up into the UFO conspiracy narrative) and that the US government has confirmed, officially and on record, that aliens are real and UFOs are alien spacecraft (they've done nothing of the sort.) Yet there isn't panic in the streets. People compartmentalize and move on with their lives if it doesn't affect them personally.
People still had to go to work when Einstein discovered relativity, but that still mattered in the long run. If any of this were true, in the sense of being actually aliens, it would still matter.
Even if the truth is just that are apparently physics defying craft that the government is aware of but doesn't know where they come from, and all of the rest of the UFO and conspiracy stuff is nonsense, it's just weird shit in the sky that's definitely actually there, that's still interesting.
I have to agree with the sibling comment. I don't think there are aliens in the universe or the galaxy but don't you think if there was some clear evidence that they exist and that we are not alone in the universe wouldn't just be massive news? You're talking about some practical concerns and I get it but you're still living better than 90% of people on Earth even with $5/gal gas ... if you have a job that is potentially being replaced by AI, I would assume an extra 2 dollars per gallon, let's call it $40-$80 a month, is that really breaking the bank here? Also, the potential of extra-terrestrial life vs the Epstein files that apparently nobody cared about under Biden, really?
The objection is that releasing blurry pictures of airplanes, birds, and lens artifacts is not newsworthy, but it's getting coverage anyway instead of the things that are newsworthy.
This is Epstein binders (a) version of UFO release. All the information thats been released has been out there for mutiple decades and is the fodder and fuel for UFO community.
Unless Lrrr, Ruler of Omicron Perseii 8, lands a saucer on the White House lawn tomorrow and announces he's the new ruler of Earth, all of this means nothing.
I still have to go to work, I still can't buy a house without going into unreasonable financial risk, gas will still be creeping up to $5/gal in Kansas City, and I'll still be wondering if I'll be replaced by AI before I finish up saving for retirement.
An annual summary from Homeland Security’s inspector general said the department initiated 1,389 investigations into internal matters, leading to 318 arrests and 260 convictions of DHS employees. In 2011, the auditor -- which describes itself as “the principal agency within the department with the authority to investigate employee corruption” -- found instances of bribery, child pornography and “nonconsensual sexual contact” with Immigration and Customs Enforcement detainees among the crimes DHS staff allegedly committed.
Kind of tragic for all the kids who died after US Aid, the Iranian school kids, the detained children of "illegals", the victims of child molestation etc...
I mean, there are three options that I see. We vote them out peacefully, we end up in a long-term horrific dystopian society, or we overthrow them violently. I'm doing everything I can to make sure that the first option becomes reality, but I'm honestly starting to lose hope.
Sorry, but I'm actually a bit of a patriot who cares about his country, so I don't want to run away when it is being dismantled by thugs. Why shouldn't it be the criminal billionaires and politicians that move? They're the minority.
*I* believe in the rule of law, but I don't think it's actively being enforced in the country that I love. I won't pretend that America has ever been the place that we pretend to be, but there have always been people who believe in its promise. We will never achieve our potential with fatalistic defeatism. We need the common will of the people to push us in the right direction, and that doesn't happen if we just run away when things get hard.
> All we say to America is, "Be true to what you said on paper."
Yes, I meant the evidence of Epstein's associates including the current supreme leader raping underaged girls. Including the evidence of his ties to intelligence agencies. Would help explain some wars right now, I would think.
> understanding there's a huge issue with completeness about the Epstein files and largely against his will)
What does this mean? Can't the president declassify things by their own will? Like when Trump revealed extremely high resolution satellite imagery during a presentation? Didn't Trump himself say he can declassify stuff whenever he wants?
> Trump added to the confusion when he said in an interview with Fox personality Sean Hannity, “There doesn’t have to be a process, as I understand it. ... If you’re the president of the United States, you can declassify just by saying it’s declassified. Even by thinking about it.”
yes yes, because the right was completely tolerant of democratic administrations. both sides are blind to their own faults which is natural as nobody likes wallowing in their own issues. it's much easier to whataboutism the topic instead. Trump has blamed his predecessors to the point it seems obsessive. As someone that leans left more than right, I'm willing to accept the faults of the platform. would you be willing to do the same for yours?
You can support your own party, sure. But from time to time, the flag bearer for that party is questionable at best. What ever good that person does is overshadowed by the questionable stuff. The absolute grift and corruption that is going on will overshadow any kept promise to release useless documents while shielding documents promised to be released. This war. You can support notions of smaller government, lower taxes, limiting rights of those that are not white male land owners, preventing those in need from getting healthcare all you want. Blind faith in a criminal is always going to get what you interpret as attacks
Big thanks for all your comments! I'm been very worried long time of how these masonic/pdf/liars are running the whole world actually, not only in USA. These UFO/UAP files are again new distraction from the real problem.
>Actual site photo with FBI Lab rendered graphic overlay depicting corroborating eyewitness reports from September 2023 of an apparent ellipsoid bronze metallic object materializing out of a bright light in the sky, 130-195 feet in length, and disappearing instantaneously.
lol finally we can actually know how the FBI imagines the fake aliens, ray-traced 90s Bryce3D art.
Oh wow did not realize they changed the web site to war too. Wonder how many million they spent on that name change. Just such a bad look for the country
It costs millions because the entire point of this admin is to spend public money on their friend's businesses.
It's literal mafia strategy, because that's what Trump has always done. Large, nebulous contracts where it's hard to demonstrate that the sum paid to X contractor was actually used to pay for materials and labor rather than just pocketed.
That's why everyone connected to the admin is picking up billions of dollars in record time.
Things being done poorly and for a lot of money is the point
Who is "they"? Yes the US Government owns .gov. No it isn't owned by the Department of War/Department of Defense/War Department. It's owned by the Department of Homeland Security.
You didn't see their YouTube video when they launched. it looked like a movie trailer meets a Donald Trump's marketing company's yes-men agreement in a board room: "Yes, this we like this movie, make our trailer look a movie trailer from that badass Tom Cruise movie!" and it was very much like they were monetizing and marketing war as a movie, with entertainment and business value.
Pathetic. They launched like a business, and I guess for the bourgeoisie class, war is a business.
Berkely Mono (which has been discussed on HN multiple times) is a fine font. The trial version reportedly has swapped / \ and # * glyphs which makes it an odd choice for first place.
